Wednesday, August 13, 2014


I'm going to do it again.  Another conversation about Ferguson, Missouri.  This time with a guy who calls himself Rosen Otter.  This is not the first time Otter and I have crossed paths.  Again, I present it unedited and raw.  Again take from it whatever you want.  The following is from my Facebook page.

Randy Gould shared a link.

The conversation below between myself and Ajamu Nangwaya followed a posting by me of a video discussing the uprising in Ferguson, Missouri (and what it means) following the police killing of Michael Brown, another young African American man gunned down on the streets of America by cops. I am sharing our back and forth unedited, so their may well be typos, etc. I am taking some of it off my page and some of it off his. Make of it what you will

Following our discussion, I will post a piece by Chicago Surrealist Group which appeared in Scission in May of 2013, but which was written following the uprising in LA back in 1992.
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  • Rosen Otter Is this an uprising? Are there actually Marxists looting the stores and burning stuff? It's indistinguishable from random crime.
  • Randy Gould You don't need Marxists for an uprising. If you can't tell the difference between what is happening and "random crime," that is your problem...and he blinders you wear.
  • Rosen Otter Oh, I'm sure that some of the crime is motivated by political feelings, which is why they're attacking quickie marts and liquor stores. I assume that mostly, it's about getting free stuff and taking out their frustrations on unarmed people who probably weren't the cause of their misery in the first place.

    Tell me, will it be racism that discourages people from building new stores in areas where the locals looted and burned?
  • Rosen Otter Meanwhile - Is this a racist response, or is this because people are afraid of having their stuff stolen and businesses burned?
    (KTVI)- According to the St. Louis Business Journal, customers are buying a vari... See More
  • Randy Gould Rosen, I won't bother trying to explain things to you. It is not my goal in life to convince you of anything. Hang on to your white skin privilege, I'm starting to think its all you got. Before you rush right back and tell me how you aren't white, think "social construct" not are as "white" as snow...
  • Rosen Otter I'm still not seeing it. If they're angry at the cops, why not attack the cops, not liquor stores?
  • Rosen Otter I'm not sure you CAN explain it, regardless of bother. It approaches religion in it's clarity.
  • Randy Gould Besides suggesting you bother to read the entire Scission post + the thing from back in 1992, I would ask you, do you think if the cops had not murdered a young black man (actually just one more in a long string) that people would have gone out onto the streets? Do you think if there wasn't centuries of white supremacy and racial oppression in this country that people would have gone out into the streets. When was the last time you remember a community getting up one morning with nothing going on, getting themselves together and going out into the streets. You can't loot what has been stolen from your people and your community for a few hundred years. I might quote from Ajamu, "Why are the riot shamers so silent in the presence of acts of structural violence such as homelessness, inadequate housing, poor quality or inaccessible public education, limited or no access to healthcare, poverty, over-policing and unemployment that are imposed on Fanon's "wretched of the earth"?

    "However, when the people demonstrate their contempt for their oppressive condition, the bleeding heart and other misguided voices are ready to call for non-violence or patience."

    "These characters would have counselled non-violence during moments of armed rebellion against plantation slavery by enslaved Afrikans. We cannot steal from the plantation or the master. We are merely expropriating the expropriators and their enablers! "

    "Is that an unconscionable or revolting behaviour by members of the unwashed masses?"
  • Randy Gould Do you have any understanding of rage. I also might mention the police have guns...and I don't just mean guns like you have. Have you seen pictures of these guys. Explain the difference between them and a unit of American Troops in a war zone. Maybe unarmed people have the idea that rather then be slaughtered they will take out their anger elsewhere. Finally, Rosen, when the shackles are finally broken, to expect people to suddenly behave like good little boys and girls is to live in some dream world. I don't condemn Nat Turner and I don't condemn the people who have been involved in what white people and their media call riots, be they in Detroit or Watts in the 60s, LA in the 90s or near St. Louis in the last week. I was around in the 60s during all the uprisings in the ghettos across America. Not only do I and did I understand why and what was going on in reality, I also saw how it shook up the powers that be who were actually forced to do what little in the way of reforms they did. More than 40 years ago I saw Black Panthers murdered by cops for daring to stand up for their people. Today, young Black men get gunned down for merely walking down the street (and you say nothing). Young Black women get dragged out of their apartments not far from where you live and thrown up half naked against the wall in a public hallway because the police suspect something (and you say nothing). Cops kill and get administrative leave...with pay (and you say nothing). I think African Americans have shown amazing courage and amazing restraint in the face of all of this. I am not spending my time mourning the loss of a 7-11. So, Mr. Otter, again I say, hide behind your white skin privilege, wear your blinders, never learn how to peak out from your white blind your job for white America, (but pretend your aren't), pretend you are progressive, pretend you are anti-racist if that is what makes you feel good. Me, I am a race traitor. I stand with John Brown. I will give you credit for one thing. If your goal is to piss me off, you do that pretty well. If your goal is to make me waste time arguing with you. You do that pretty well, too. I have no more time to discuss this with you.

1 comment:

Rosen Otter said...

I should google my name more often. Wasn't there more to this argument than what you posted?