A CONVERSATION WITH THE OCCUPATION WALL STREET MOVEMENT HERE, THERE, AND EVERYWHERE

DR. RON PAUL
SEEMS LIKE JUST A NICE OLD COOT

People, I don't want to get bogged down in this shit.  There is a world of stuff to report on that I want to do here.  That said I have to tell you I have been dismayed by some of the comments I have seen on various OCCUPY facebook sites and by the obvious infiltration by some rather, shall we say, disreputable sorts.  My posts and questions have been the subject of anti-communist rants from Ron Paul supporters and other right wing sorts who have weaseled there way into all this.  I still adamantly believe that the OCCUPY WALL STREET MOVEMENT NATIONWIDE is a good  and refreshing development.  I still believe that the vast, vast majority of those involved are good people with some good ideas.  I still very much want it to grow.  However, I am afraid that the lack of experience of many fine folks involved in this thing opens the door to a whole assortment of people on the political right, including outright white supremacists who while against some form of corporate capitalism should never be considered a part of any supposedly progressive movement.  I fear, that especially, out here in flyover country the young faces building this "movement" just can't see it, can't figure out how to deal with it, don't understand the danger of it.  I would love to hear from others around the country with such experiences and some thoughts on the matter.  Maybe, I am just crazy, but I remember such in both the anti-Iraq war movement and the anti-globalization movement, especially in their infancy.  Somehow we must find a way to combat this threat without destroying the good and the potential of this movement...and that does not mean taking it over by this left group or that.


After clashing all day with Ron Paulists and after being called out as a "commie" and all that I decided to just post a simple straightforward question with as little diatribe as possible.  I'll print that here with a short discussion with two people that followed on one Occupy facebook site..  The end of the discussion is hopeful.  I am changing the names of those posters below, besides my own, because the last time I did this good people got bad emails.  I don't want that to happen again.




FROM ME:

ARE RON PAUL SUPPORTERS CONSIDERED A LEGITIMATE PART OF.. (OCCUPY GROUPS). ARE OTHER RIGH WING LIBERTARIANS CONSIDERED A LEGITIMATE PART OF.. (OCCUPY GROUPS)? ARE THOSE WITH WHITE SUPREMACIST, RACIST, OR ANTI JEWISH VIEWS BUT WHO OPPOSE SOME FORM OF THE CORPORATE STATE AND CORPORATE CAPOTALISM WELCOME TO PARTICIPATE? WHY WON'T THE GA JUST DISCUSS THIS MATTER AND LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE? ARE MARXISTS, LIKE MYSELF, WELCOME TO PARTICIPATE?

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    PERSON ONE -I do not understand the propaganda you continue to post on this wall, frankly because I have not seen any such encouragement from any member of the occupiers (myself) ..it seems accusatory and presumptuous of you to make such allegations. It seems you are trying to separate the unity that has been achieved among occupiers, with your unruffled comments. ALL are welcome to join a Live GA to discuss anything on their minds that have to do with the movement. IN ADDITION ALL are welcome to support and occupy (unless they bring along with them a message of division or anger/hate mongering... we have been divided as "a people" for too many generations this is the time to come together. ...
    

    about an hour ago · 
  •  PERSON TWO - I don't think that we should be focusing on those kinds of ideas. I means, sure, their probably are going to be Ron Paul supporters at the protests, but I'm not worried about that.
    

    about an hour ago · 
  • PERSON TWO - What I find important is just fighting this together, the aftermath details will be figured out later... and on a national level I think we should elect someone outside of politics... like a normal civilian.
    

    about an hour ago ·  · 
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    Randy Gould PERSON ONE, I am not trying to do anything at all. Well, I take that back. I seriously oppose the Paulists and the others I mentioned and I will do all that I can to keep them from turning this movement into a right wing libertarian anything. That said, for the one hundredth time and I can't make this any more clear. I am not accusing anyone of anything. It is not up to me to decide anything. It is all up to the people involved what type of movement they want. It is up to everyone else to decide whether they want to be part of that movement.. Also, for the hundredth time, I am mostly speaking about this as a result of looking at numerous comments made on both facebook sites by acknowledged Paulists and others that for me are beyond the pale (and who are in now way shy about expressing their feelings about commies like me participating in this movement). I have no idea if these people are representative of anything. I am only asking because I choose for myself not to participate with people I consider enemies of the poor, working people, people of color, women, gays and all progressive people not just in the US but in the world. I am for a progressive OCCUPY movement. It certainly doesn't have to reflect all of my opinions for me to participate and support. For example, unlike you I place no faith in Jesus or God to sort all this out, but I certainly don't oppose those who do. I'm not here to impose my Marxist thinking on anyone. I don't expect everyone in this movement to call themselves a marxist or a socialist. I am. You probably are not. I wish OCCUPY ... AND THE WHOLE OCCUPY MOVEMENT NOTHING BUT THE BEST. I have viewed it as a refreshing alternative to all the dogmatic crap I have viewed and been involved in during my forty plus years of political work and activism. In addition to my Marxian orientation I consider white supremacy and racism to be the biggest evil in this US of A. So yes, I take it seriously. I presume the vast majority of those involved in the nationwide Occupy movement take racism seriously as well (whether or not any of them agree with my orientation toward white supremacy and white skin privilege is not all that important). I also believe that the global environmental catastrophe happening at this very moment must be addressed at this very moment or none of the rest of this will matter anyway. But, again, I don't demand that of OCCUPY.... You are participating in the birth of something with great potential. PERSON TWO, at least, while I don't agree with her, gives some sort of an answer to some of my question. I think she is saying, and I could be wrong, that she is not worried about the issues I am raising, doesn't think they matter much at the moment, and thinks they can be dealt with later. Again, I don't agree, but it is an honest answer given with no vindicteness that I notice anyway. Have a good day. FIGHT WHITE SUPREMACY, FIGHT RACISM, SAVE THE EARTH!
    

    47 minutes ago ·  ·  1 person
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     PERSON ONE - I appreciate and respect your comments Randy and hope to see you at a GA very soon, where you might find answer to your questions in a live forum. FYI: i have been a activist of social equality my whole life and wholeheartedly agree with your stance on white supremacy and racism, for the record. peace brother.
    

    about a minute ago · 
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    Randy Gould And I thank you and appreciate your comments as well.